Tuesday, July 5, 2011

The Importance of Playing With Fish

The Importance of Playing With Fish
This is another pretty ridiculous hand from NL2. But I think there are still some important points to note. In the future I will post a variety of more common spots as well as hands from higher stakes.

Quick Side note before I post the hand:


People often ask me how I maintain such a high winrate at these stakes. Honestly, sit with guys like the villains in this hand a lot. Preferably have them on your right.

This advice will do far more for your “game” than any strategy tips that I could possibly offer you. Or anything that you will learn on a training site, forum or read in a book.

Reads
  • MP is a 37/5/2 Fish
  • SB is a 92/25/3 Maniac

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players

UTG+1: $2
MP: $6.73
CO: $2.43
BTN: $2
SB: $4.08
Hero (BB): $5.20
UTG: $4.26

Pre-Flop: T T dealt to Hero (BB)

2 folds, MP calls $0.02, 2 folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero???


How would you proceed from here? Raise? If so how much? Check?
Please let me know your thoughts below in the comments.
Ideally, I would like to get a couple replies before I post the next stage of each hand.

I have disabled moderation so that comments will appear instantly from now on which will hopefully generate more discussion. I still have anonymous commenting disabled however. Its just easier for me (and others) if you leave a name. You don't need to have a blog or anything. Just a simple Google or OpenID account.



Edit #1


Hero raises to $0.16, MP folds, SB calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.34) T 4 6 (2 Players)

SB bets $0.52, Hero???

Just call? Raise? If so how much?



Edit#2


Hero calls $0.52

Turn:
($1.38) 8 (2 Players)

SB bets $3.40 and is All-In, Hero calls $3.40

River: ($8.18) 3 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)


Results:
$8.18 Pot ($0.40 Rake)

SB showed K 8 and LOST (-$4.07 NET)

Hero showed T T and WON $7.78 (+$3.72 NET)


blackrain79 - micro stakes strategy

11 comments:

  1. guess I'll go first here .

    Hi BR have followed your blog for a while. I'm really a tourney player so not used to playing cash and so deep. but here is a def raise 5 - 6 BB.

    Idealy I want the fish to fold and take on the "maniac SB heads up" and in pos.

    I'm not worried about a re-raise from the SB having a 3-bet of 2%
    Again I'm not used to 2NL but I guess your going to tell me here u raise 25 BB or Shove 200BB LOL.

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  2. i raise to 5bb pre as a standard isoraise, i dont want to bloat pot preflop wih higher raise as we flop underpair most of time and we will have hard times against maniac postflop

    magorko

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  3. Yea you could shove and the 92% would prob call .. I would raise it to .20 and im sure both fish are still going to call ///

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  4. Thanks for the well thought out replies guys!

    You all like to raise. I agree. But I tend to like Chris's (All in Clubs) sizing a bit more even though I didn't go quite that high. I made it 8BB (see edit #1 on the main post)

    I like to make it a bit more than 5-6BB because I am OOP (out of position). I want to discourage calls to compensate for my positional disadvantage. Whereas if I was on the button, 5-6BB is perfect.

    Just to add, I like making this raise from the blinds here with a wide variety of hands when two fish (or any players really) limp like this. I would do the same thing with A2 suited, KT off suit etc, it doesn't have to be a premium hand like TT.

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  5. well i rly dont think you need to discourage fish from calling even you are OOP, your hand strenght balance it pretty good and you can get all stacks in when you hit set anyway because they are not capable of folding lot of hands :) i think making prize good for fish to call and also dont bloat pot because flop wont be perect almost always is better then try to make fish fold preflop with such a good hand like TT

    but being this deep yeah it would be better make pot bigger but 100bb deep i like standard iso

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  6. this is completely beside your hand of the day but i have to show u this crazy hand what my brother played. callandurout is my brother PokerStars Game #64241670856: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/07/07 11:52:15 ACST [2011/07/06 22:22:15 ET]
    Table 'Tirza III' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: callandurout ($3.29 in chips)
    Seat 2: moshdim ($3.45 in chips)
    Seat 4: goodluck009 ($1.57 in chips)
    Seat 5: 3Jester6 ($1.73 in chips)
    Seat 6: VelhoBarreir ($2 in chips)
    Seat 7: olove6 ($0.97 in chips)
    Seat 8: alter_alter ($4.72 in chips)
    Seat 9: Miguelf1000 ($7.33 in chips)
    callandurout: posts small blind $0.01
    moshdim: posts big blind $0.02
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to callandurout [Td Jc]
    goodluck009: calls $0.02
    3Jester6: folds
    VelhoBarreir: calls $0.02
    olove6: folds
    alter_alter: calls $0.02
    Miguelf1000: calls $0.02
    callandurout: calls $0.01
    moshdim: checks
    *** FLOP *** [Qd As Ks]
    sturm14 joins the table at seat #3
    callandurout: bets $0.16
    moshdim: folds
    goodluck009: folds
    VelhoBarreir: folds
    alter_alter: calls $0.16
    Miguelf1000: calls $0.16
    *** TURN *** [Qd As Ks] [8h]
    callandurout: bets $1.06
    alter_alter: calls $1.06
    Miguelf1000: raises $1.06 to $2.12
    callandurout: raises $0.99 to $3.11 and is all-in
    alter_alter: calls $2.05
    Miguelf1000: calls $0.99
    *** RIVER *** [Qd As Ks 8h] [2d]
    alter_alter: checks
    Miguelf1000: checks
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    callandurout: shows [Td Jc] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
    alter_alter: mucks hand
    callandurout said, "well played"
    Miguelf1000: mucks hand
    callandurout collected $9.44 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $9.93 | Rake $0.49
    Board [Qd As Ks 8h 2d]
    Seat 1: callandurout (small blind) showed [Td Jc] and won ($9.44) with a straight, Ten to Ace
    Seat 2: moshdim (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 4: goodluck009 folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: 3Jester6 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: VelhoBarreir folded on the Flop
    Seat 7: olove6 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: alter_alter mucked [5s 4s]
    Seat 9: Miguelf1000 (button) mucked [Qc Kc]

    the guy with KQ is a 35/10 and the other guy 16/12

    like u said....never try and bluff these guys perfect example

    betidiots

    ReplyDelete
  7. Roman,

    Ya I hear what you are saying. And certainly my intention isn't to make them fold with a bigger raise. I think ridiculous fish like this will call 8 BB just as much as 6 BB. So when I have TT I'm gonna charge them more.

    Some of this stuff only applies to NL2, where the fish are this ridiculous, but the logic continues where if I had AA here, I make it even more. I just don't think they are folding, especially the 92 vpip guy.

    Lastly, we have position on the aggro one. I don't expect to be put in too many difficult spots.

    Betidiots,

    Haha nh by your bro there. Ya NL2 is still pretty awesome a lot of the time.

    All,

    If you guys want to continue commenting on the hand by all means go ahead. The post is edited with the flop action now. Its a pretty ridiculous hand like I stated earlier.

    I kinda put it up more to illustrate the importance of sitting with 92 vpip dummies more than anything, especially when you see the results.

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  8. i think it comes down to if you have raised him in this spot before i know u dont want to scare him off but if u raised him already in this spot i would min raise him but if u flat his donk like this before flat again and if you folded to his donk before easy fold here having said that its a dry flop so u would lean more to flatting him here and hope he donks the turn big if not if u bet the turn on a blank when he checks to u it'll look suspicious he might shove any 2. I think it comes down to what u did to him previously cos guys like this spazz if u raise them 3 flops in a row.

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  9. BR usually I like the extra bigger raise to discourage calling when playing OOP but only when the blinds are worth stealing. Here I did actually think of a bigger raise first but then with a 92%VOIP LOL I just thought “value and pot control”) cause he’s going to call. Sounds like a contradiction in terms (value and pot control)but hey I want value for my 1010….I just wouldn’t like to be put to the test for a big percentage of my stack by the maniac when overcards come. (as they will most of the time) Guess that was my reasoning.

    With cash 2NL games in general I would have thought that stacks are so big compared to blinds that the reasoning behind raising extra to get someone to fold when OOP is really not so important (cause it just builds a bigger pot for you OOP). Obv this is pretty standard play in tourney or short stack play when chips are “more valuable” If that makes sense.
    Would really like your thoughts (and anyones for that matter ) on that concept

    Roman just to clarify what you said. You want the fish to call? Does that mean you want both to call? Are you looking at pure set mining here?
    Like I said I don’t have a lot a experience 250BB deep so I like the imput
    Thanks guys

    ReplyDelete
  10. BR usually I like the extra bigger raise to discourage calling when playing OOP but only when the blinds are worth stealing. Here I did actually think of a bigger raise first but then with a 92%VOIP LOL I just thought “value and pot control”) cause he’s going to call. Sounds like a contradiction in terms (value and pot control )but hey I want value for my 1010….I just wouldn’t like to be put to the test for a big percentage of my stack by the maniac when overcards come. (as they will most of the time) Guess that was my reasoning.

    With cash 2NL games in general I would have thought that stacks are so big compared to blinds that the reasoning behind raising extra to get someone to fold when OOP is really not so important (cause it just builds a bigger pot for you OOP). Obv this is pretty standard play in tourney or general short stack play when chips are “more valuable” If that makes sense.
    Would really like your thoughts (and anyones for that matter ) on that concept

    Roman just to clarify what you said. You want the fish to call? Does that mean you want both to call? Are you looking at pure set mining here?
    Like I said I don’t have a lot a experience 250BB deep so I like the imput

    ReplyDelete
  11. Betidiots,

    Ya I agree. In this case I don't think there is any history between us.

    So basically, with a board this dry, with top set and a maniac donking almost double pot, I think calling is clearly the best play. I think this is all pretty straightforward.

    Thanks for all the comments guys. I will do more of these in the future and find better hands than this one.

    ReplyDelete